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Post by Admin on Sept 14, 2014 9:39:55 GMT -5
Chapter 2 discusses the "comprehension vs. production" controversy (mostly around pp. 38-39). Nowhere is this controversy more prevalent than in American "foreign language" classrooms, though given this class's purpose, obviously the debate is also extremely important in ESL classrooms as well. Think of the "foreign" language classes you took in high school (that foreign language can be English if you went to school in a non-English-speaking country!) Discuss the extent to which those classes leaned more towards COMPREHENSION, more towards PRODUCTION, or offered some balance of both. What was your impression of those classes? Did they help you? Do you feel like you learned a lot, and do you think you could function well in an environment that spoke only that language as a result? Which "blend" of comprehension vs. production do you think works best for you? Now apply this to ESL classes - instinctively, what do you think should be the "balance" for your future ESL classes? [Note: I will next answer this question myself first, as if I were a student in the class. Beware: I will not necessarily give a fully informed answer!]
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Post by Admin on Sept 14, 2014 9:48:16 GMT -5
I went to 2 different high schools, one in NY and one in CA. In the NY high school, we spoke a lot of Spanish in the class. We were expected to be able to understand. It was easy for me (languages have always been easy for me) but I remember for a lot of people it was really stressful. In Spanish 1, we used English in the class a lot, but there was one day a week that was a Spanish-only day; if we spoke any English, we had to pay 5 cents per word into a jar. By Spanish 2, we were not allowed to use English in the class at all. It really forced us to listen attentively and understand what was being said - we had no choice! But when I moved to California, and took Spanish 4 and 5, in both classes, it was more about doing homework assignments and using our Spanish on paper (so, I guess, more production, less comprehension, although it wasn't even ORAL production, so what's the point, right?), and it wasn't reinforced in class with any real practice. The teachers spoke either very little Spanish or very poor Spanish, and I actually felt like my Spanish was WORSE when I graduated in CA than it was after 10th grade in NY. I think if nothing else, students need excellent models of communicative behavior in the target language. Teachers should model the language, and encourage students to understand. Resorting to just worksheets and stuff is just lazy teaching.
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Post by nancy27c on Sept 14, 2014 20:28:31 GMT -5
@ Prof. King
I remember in French I, II, & III it was heavy on production (grammar, vocabulary) but as we started French II, some more comprehension was emphasised. We watched videos from Canada which were strictly in French, with a clown that had little story/scenes that were broken down and taught new vocab. But it also taught oral comprehension in that by the time the scences played out fully (instead of piecemeal like in the teaching portion of the video), you pretty much understood more of the subtleties of the story.
Also, in third year, I remember reading Rhinoceros in French and struggled with comprehending the plot because I was trying to get a literal translation for every sentence in the book. I finally took it to my teacher and she showed me how to get the context of the reading instead of the literal translation (by which time the context was lost.)
The above example proved, that for me, a heavier lean towards comprehension worked better than the production heavy side in my first year. I think that comprehension should be the main focus in the classroom rather than the precision of the production side of teaching/learning. The production will come as a natural part of and comprehension as Berlitz'ls Direct Method shows. The direct need to make things meaningful will allow language learners to search out things like vocabulary and grammar.
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Post by nstashenko on Sept 14, 2014 21:58:15 GMT -5
I also took 1 year of Spanish in high school it was a difficult experience for me because I was finally getting the grasp of learning English and now here I was in Spanish class trying to learn a third language when I couldn't master yet the second language. I remember that the teacher in the beginning of the year would first say something in English but then would teach us how to say it in Spanish. However that only lasted the first month after that it became intense the teacher became very focused on production before I was even able to comprehend any of the languages yet. We would have to write a very proficient essay, we would have to do oral presentations by reading Spanish dialogues and we would get corrected after every other word we spoke. It was bad enough that I couldn't speak English proficiently now I was here trying to speak Spanish proficiently. I wish that my teacher would first focus on the comprehension part rather then heavily focusing on production because whatever I produced in my writings, speaking I had no knowledge or understanding of what I was writing or speaking it was a bunch of useless stuff that I just regurgitated and forgot but actually never learned it. Therefore I believe and support comprehension is more important in the beginning then production, through comprehension production will come.
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Post by victoria on Sept 15, 2014 20:46:56 GMT -5
Throughout my high school career I took Spanish classes, I even took a few college level Spanish classes but they in no way prepare you for any real life use of the language. Unfortunately I find that many second language classes focus on production, and this causes the students to learn and have an output of work that can be measured but is not necessarily useful. At most I feel that many of my classmates were able to memorize a few key items and the rest was lost to us. From those classes I am able to read Spanish and comprehend speech at about 40-50% I would say. But my speech is not good at all. My Husband's first language is Spanish and so he tries to get me to practice but often I am too embarrassed and give up.
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Post by vlmuth on Sept 15, 2014 20:48:16 GMT -5
I apologize for the above comment being registered as guest. Somehow I had typed it all and it had signed me out.
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kara
New Member
Posts: 19
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Post by kara on Sept 16, 2014 9:26:28 GMT -5
My high school adviser told me I could not take French class because I was French-Canadian so I had to take Spanish. I think because I was bitter about not being able to take the easier class, I made Spanish a lot more difficult than it needed to be. However our Spanish classes were definitely cared more about production than anything. Everyday my teacher would give us worksheets to do at our desk individually or in a small group, no more than 4 people. We hardly ever practiced speaking, even though our midterms and finals always had a speaking and listening portion. Between the worksheets and quiz's I never felt confident in speaking Spanish and after finishing the required courses I quit learning the language.
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Post by kristine14 on Sept 16, 2014 15:16:14 GMT -5
I took Spanish from seventh to twelfth grade in high school. During my junior and senior year, I took Spanish as a college level course at MVCC. I do not feel that my teacher was very effective at teaching a second language. I do not feel that I am able to converse with someone that speaks Spanish. My teacher focused on the production aspect rather than comprehension. We were taught grammar, tenses, vocabulary, reading, writing etc. I remember reading a story called Don Quixote and I had a difficult time understanding what I was reading. I remember constantly trying to translate words in the dictionary. We hardly ever have conversations in only Spanish. I feel that the purpose of learning a second language is to be able to communicate with others. Teachers need to use a more authentic approach, and focus more on the speaking aspect when learning a second language.
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Maria
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Posts: 28
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Post by Maria on Sept 16, 2014 21:29:31 GMT -5
I didn't take Spanish but took Sign Language I at HCCC my second year of college. The course was definitely more production oriented because we spent most of our time doing worksheets and homework assignments. It really just felt like we were taking the class to get a grade instead of really learning a new language. A couple years later I decided to take Sign 2 at Utica College & was completely overwhelmed the first day. She definitely used more of a comprehension method because everyone in the class used signs to communicate and I bascially had to just figure it out. It wasn't easy because I was the only transfer student but it pushed me to really learn the language and that resulted in a greater understanding. I didn't just know how to sign my name, colors, or types of food but could actually have a conversation with a deaf person. Before class we'd even gossip to each other in sign and it really made us better. She brought us to a school and gave us the opportunity to sign with deaf kids. It was quite intimidating but forced us to adapt and really learn the language. I'm more of a hands on learner so comprehension is more efficient for me rather than just doing paper work.
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Post by ayteama on Sept 17, 2014 18:26:42 GMT -5
Actually in Egypt, English was my second language. for all levels beginner, intermediate and advanced it was the same approach. only memorizing words and study grammar... maybe a little bit writing . but no listening or speaking. the only way to pronounce is the volunteer reading. so we all can't understand oral conversations or interact vocally. only we can solve written exams. this is a very poor method of teaching the language .. I think It may be improved now only in private schools not the public ones. I think the useful way is to learn how to listen and speak first then writing and reading afterwards. I tries this method in a private institution when I decided to learn french, after two lectures I was able to interact and understand in basic things without knowing any grammar or spelling . but It wasn't such good as the instructor pay more attention for this then he tough grammar afterwards .. but we never write a word. till now I can not write a single words or even pronoun in french because it was Acoustic study for me! I think the balance between all is better but the priority still to be a talker and hearer .
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